[NeonLove]

The middle-class white guy revolution begins:

Read Joseph Stack's Manifesto - The Trentonian News: Serving Trenton and surrounding communities. (trentonian.com)

The guy was obviously disturbed and this "manifesto" is a little confusing to read - sort of here and there and obviously leaving out a lot of details about what he was going through, but it definitely sounds like a lot of the sound bites about taxes and government conspiracies that gets thrown around a lot lately.

I'm not saying he is an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about (I personally know next to nothing about tax codes so I dont know what his beef could have been), but it kind of strengthens my intuition that a lot of people in America are just spoiled and/or blame personal problems on society. I mean, this guy wasn't on the street, living out of a cardboard box. He wasn't starving. He had a house to burn down, a private plane to crash, and a wife (who may have been the real reason he ended it all).

Anyways, should be interesting how this develops, especially with the Tea Party, Obama is a socialist stuff going around.

Thoughts?

[ulstertalbot]

it was a crazy thing to do,he didnt care about the innocent people on the ground,and his wife homeless.

[Slutter McGee]

Considering the fact that he quotes Karl Marx and hates capitalism, I don't think he is exactly representative of the tea-party anti Obama stuff out there. I am pretty sure that hatred of the IRS is not exclusive to conservatives and libertarians. Of course liberal assholes will try to spin it that way now wont they.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by Slutter McGee

Considering the fact that he quotes Karl Marx and hates capitalism, I don't think he is exactly representative of the tea-party anti Obama stuff out there. I am pretty sure that hatred of the IRS is not exclusive to conservatives and libertarians. Of course liberal assholes will try to spin it that way now wont they.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

How do you figure he hates capitalism?

The note says he has been trying to be a succesful capitalist his entire life but the interfering government got in the way and took his profits.

[Slutter McGee]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

How do you figure he hates capitalism?

The note says he has been trying to be a succesful capitalist his entire life but the interfering government got in the way and took his profits.

maybe because he finished it with this.

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Does that sound like something a tea-partier would say?

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[TheBagman]

Many of the tea partiers are so confused and misguided that it wouldn't surprise me.

[Slutter McGee]

Originally Posted by TheBagman

Many of the tea partiers are so confused and misguided that it wouldn't surprise me.

I actually disagree. Most of them may not understand the big picture but they understand the basics of fiscal conservativism. Debt - Bad. Capitalism - Good. Big Government - Bad Taxes - Bad.

Say what you will about the simplification of these issues, for the most part they are right. Now if the tea-parties get co-opted by the social conservative views of the Religious Right, or the aggressive interventionism of the neo-conservative wing then you may be right.

But I see no problem with the idea of the tea-party, insofar as the focus is fiscal.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[TheBagman]

I don't think there is any single ideological consensus behind the Tea Party movement anymore. I've seen some people use it for an pro-war with Iran platform. I've seen some use it for maintaining the status-quo, not necessarily of growing government, but rather the "keep your government hands off my medicare" laughable type nonsense.

Sure, the movement was started behind a lot of "fiscal conservatism" (whatever this is even supposed to mean), but the Tea Party's are not solely that anymore. The fact that Brown, who was supposedly a "Tea Party Hero," was elected "to serve a message" to the current administration and the Democrats is nonsense. The fact is a majority of individuals from Mass. like their health care. The fact is Brown voted for Romney's health care bill when he was in the state legislature and to this day says he would do it again. The fact that Brown has said he won't vote for a plan that is "fiscally irresponsible" (again, whatever that means) it means nothing. The only reason he doesn't like the bill, from my estimation, is because it doesn't add anything to Mass. but some costs as they already have the health care mandates. Put in some little goody for Mass and I bet he will jump all over that business. He's also a hardcore war hawk.

I have little hope for the so-called "Tea Party" movement.

[AnnonUSA]

The Main Speaker at the recent tea party convention was Sarah Palin... Beep.Done.

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by Slutter McGee

maybe because he finished it with this.

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Does that sound like something a tea-partier would say?

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Did you read the rest of the note?

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by Slutter McGee

I actually disagree. Most of them may not understand the big picture but they understand the basics of fiscal conservativism. Debt - Bad. Capitalism - Good. Big Government - Bad Taxes - Bad.

Say what you will about the simplification of these issues, for the most part they are right. Now if the tea-parties get co-opted by the social conservative views of the Religious Right, or the aggressive interventionism of the neo-conservative wing then you may be right.

But I see no problem with the idea of the tea-party, insofar as the focus is fiscal.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

That's just a tiny little, over-simplified concept buried deep within a whole pile of incomprehensible bullshit that the Tea Party represents. Like Annon said: Sarah Palin...Beep. Done.

Either way, I'm not saying the guy was a tea part member. My point was that a lot of people will probably use this guy as a martyr for what the tea party represents - especially since nobody got killed but himself, so it makes it not so eerie to hold him up as a hero.

[TheBagman]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

Did you read the rest of the note?

I read the entirety of it.

[TheBagman]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

That's just a tiny little, over-simplified concept buried deep within a whole pile of incomprehensible bullshit that the Tea Party represents. Like Annon said: Sarah Palin...Beep. Done.

Either way, I'm not saying the guy was a tea part member. My point was that a lot of people will probably use this guy as a martyr for what the tea party represents - especially since nobody got killed but himself, so it makes it not so eerie to hold him up as a hero.

I doubt many of the Tea Partiers will embrace this guy at all. I'm certainly not one to support the Tea Party movement, however, I do think they have enough common sense and the slight amount of reasonableness to see how fucked up this was. If I'm wrong, so be it. Besides, I think his conclusion was that capitalism was bad (albeit a crony type of capitalism) and that he more saw himself as a martyr for an anti-capitalist revolution, which is why he burned and destroyed all that was materialistic in his life before he went down in flames.

[Slutter McGee]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

That's just a tiny little, over-simplified concept buried deep within a whole pile of incomprehensible bullshit that the Tea Party represents. Like Annon said: Sarah Palin...Beep. Done.

Either way, I'm not saying the guy was a tea part member. My point was that a lot of people will probably use this guy as a martyr for what the tea party represents - especially since nobody got killed but himself, so it makes it not so eerie to hold him up as a hero.

The only people who are going to hold this guy up as a hero are the Alex Jones conspiracy nuts.

Feel free to bitch about Sarah Palin all you want. The fact is that Tom Woods was also invited to speak at that convention. To not attatch libertarian and small government ideology to a populist movement focused on less government would be foolish.

And Bagman. You know what fiscal conservative means. Especially, in its connotative form.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by TheBagman

I doubt many of the Tea Partiers will embrace this guy at all. I'm certainly not one to support the Tea Party movement, however, I do think they have enough common sense and the slight amount of reasonableness to see how fucked up this was. If I'm wrong, so be it. Besides, I think his conclusion was that capitalism was bad (albeit a crony type of capitalism) and that he more saw himself as a martyr for an anti-capitalist revolution, which is why he burned and destroyed all that was materialistic in his life before he went down in flames.

The Glenn Becks and Sarah Palins wont embrace him, of course. But the smaller figures will. And a lot of Tea Party people and sympathizers. They'll look at the bigger picture and say they "understand" why he did it and not see him as a lunatic who could have killed many innocent people. And eventually, the Joe Stack t-shirts will arrive. I think I may design some just in case the trend catches on quicker than I thought.

And I disagree with the anti-capitalist bent. The note was rambling and confused, for sure, but the constant references to the government interfering with his business, the tax laws, his struggle with the system, and then of course the "OK Mr Big Brother IRS man" (a classic Tea Party line). If there was any coherent message at all in that note, it was that he was anti-government, not anti-capitalist.

As for the burning of the house - maybe he just didnt want the big banks to inherit it.

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by Slutter McGee

The only people who are going to hold this guy up as a hero are the Alex Jones conspiracy nuts.

Feel free to bitch about Sarah Palin all you want. The fact is that Tom Woods was also invited to speak at that convention. To not attatch libertarian and small government ideology to a populist movement focused on less government would be foolish.

And Bagman. You know what fiscal conservative means. Especially, in its connotative form.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

But Palin was the star of the show and will be as long as the gimmick lasts. She's the one the majority of the TP people will look up to, not Tom Woods or any other intellectual.

[TheBagman]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

If there was any coherent message at all in that note, it was that he was anti-government, not anti-capitalist.

I know many people who are anti-capitalist as well as anti-government.

Anarcho-syndicalists.

[TheBagman]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

But the smaller figures will. And a lot of Tea Party people and sympathizers. They'll look at the bigger picture and say they "understand"

This might be true, which is why I said if I was wrong, then so be it. Because, indeed, many of the tea party people are confused and I can see how they might embrace him if they don't read his manifesto.

Originally Posted by NeonLove

the constant references to the government interfering with his business, the tax laws, his struggle with the system, and then of course the "OK Mr Big Brother IRS man" (a classic Tea Party line). If there was any coherent message at all in that note, it was that he was anti-government, not anti-capitalist.

Big Brother is from Orwell. Orwell was pretty far left, but was anti-authoritarian and anti-dystopian, or shall we say, anti-Orwellian.

Originally Posted by NeonLove

As for the burning of the house - maybe he just didnt want the big banks to inherit it.

Possibly. Doubt it though, since he had a wife and kid. Although, tough to say since he was very clearly disturbed.

[AnnonUSA]

The government is robbing all of us. Their IRS rules the labeling of the classes, the definitions of "Rich" and "poor".

Everyone can understand the concept of taxation to support government services, and national security... But we are being lied to, we are being sold to the highest lobbyist in Washington.

Obama's health care plan is the perfect example... Health Insurance companies are hurriedly increasing rates (some up to 40%) in a rush to generate revenue before what they perceive as a government crackdown...

The government will never have our best interests at heart. Their wars and poor foreign policy decisions send our kids to war...

And I lost my train of thought....

[TheBagman]

Be on the lookout. Annon might be writing a manifesto any day now.

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by TheBagman

Big Brother is from Orwell. Orwell was pretty far left, but was anti-authoritarian and anti-dystopian, or shall we say, anti-Orwellian..

It's from Orwell yeah, but "Big Brother" has become a catch phrase among the Fox News crowd and for anything that hints of the thinest bit of socialist philosophy. And it's something Glenn Beck and the like use repeatedly. It's pretty much lost its meaning.

Interestingly enough, though, I watched his show today and he left out the "big brother" part when he read "OK Mr Big Brother IRS man". I thought that was funny.

Originally Posted by TheBagman

Possibly. Doubt it though, since he had a wife and kid. Although, tough to say since he was very clearly disturbed.

Werent they inside the house?

[NeonLove]

Originally Posted by AnnonUSA

The government is robbing all of us. Their IRS rules the labeling of the classes, the definitions of "Rich" and "poor".

Everyone can understand the concept of taxation to support government services, and national security... But we are being lied to, we are being sold to the highest lobbyist in Washington.

Obama's health care plan is the perfect example... Health Insurance companies are hurriedly increasing rates (some up to 40%) in a rush to generate revenue before what they perceive as a government crackdown...

The government will never have our best interests at heart. Their wars and poor foreign policy decisions send our kids to war...

And I lost my train of thought....

Wanna borrow my plane?

[TheBagman]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

It's from Orwell yeah, but "Big Brother" has become a catch phrase among the Fox News crowd and for anything that hints of the thinest bit of socialist philosophy. And it's something Glenn Beck and the like use repeatedly. It's pretty much lost its meaning.

Interestingly enough, though, I watched his show today and he left out the "big brother" part when he read "OK Mr Big Brother IRS man". I thought that was funny.

Sure, Glenn and whatnot use it. But, can we really say for sure that was the context he was using it in?

Originally Posted by NeonLove

Werent they inside the house?

No clue. I've mostly been ignoring the story, but read the manifesto to see if it was at all interesting. I found it to be quite boring and tedious. I really can't be bothered with the details on this particular incident.

At least the Unibomber was interesting.

[Slutter McGee]

Originally Posted by NeonLove

It's from Orwell yeah, but "Big Brother" has become a catch phrase among the Fox News crowd and for anything that hints of the thinest bit of socialist philosophy?

There are fourteen television cameras on the small block where Orwell used to live. As much as I may disagree with the Fox News rank and file, the term Big Brother is not overused. The word is more than appropriate and its meaning is only being diluted because the encroachments because privacy is no longer possible.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[Slutter McGee]

Originally Posted by TheBagman

No clue. I've mostly been ignoring the story, but read the manifesto to see if it was at all interesting. I found it to be quite boring and tedious. I really can't be bothered with the details on this particular incident.

The story will be important, even if it shouldn't be. I think that every human being can relate to the brief temporary desire to kill tax-collectors. But the important part of this story is not what happened, but rather how it will affect and change the current political climate, if at all.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee