An absolute Proof that God Exists

DanielTulip · 02-23-2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Skinner

Atheism is kinda a religion, too. That's why most of us are agnostic. And as opposed to atheists, we do not claim to have all knowlege, we just wait and search for proof, rather than believe in one theory. But if ye ask me, darwinism gives the best answers so far, although it has major flaws. But for me it's better than simply blaming all on a higher being.
And the fact that all those blokes were theists doesn't have anything to do with this dscussion..

That 1st sentance is perhaps the most ignorant shit I've heard in a long while. Religion is a belief in somthing. Atheists DON'T BELIEVE.

TheBagman · 02-23-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

That 1st sentance is perhaps the most ignorant shit I've heard in a long while. Religion is a belief in somthing. Atheists DON'T BELIEVE.

Athiests have faith in that there is no god. It is a faith based belief system very much so like a religion.

Agnostics believe that anything is possible, and no one explination bears no more weight than any other.

DanielTulip · 02-23-2007, 03:09 PM

Faith in science is different that faith in a religion. 1st, science requires proof for anything to be considered fact. Religion does not. 2nd it requireds that the methods for gaining the proof be repeatable, and provide the same conclusions no matter who uses the method.

TheBagman · 02-23-2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

Faith in science is different that faith in a religion. 1st, science requires proof for anything to be considered fact. Religion does not. 2nd it requireds that the methods for gaining the proof be repeatable, and provide the same conclusions no matter who uses the method.

Faith, is faith, is faith, is faith.

What makes the humans that come up with science any different than the ones that come up with religion? They are both humans, and both are coming up with possibilities that their idea is better than any other idea out there.

How do we know it's fact? Do you have enough scientific knowledge to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that earth was created through a scientific process? No, if you read any scientists reports you'd be confused as fuck. It's unlikely you'd know jack shit when it comes to scientific explanations on the creation of the universe. Who made up all these formulas and crap? Humans. Who came up with religion? Humans. How come the ones that came up with religion are wrong, and the scientists are so right? Because they use formulas and apply theories that THEY created. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You have put faith in them that their laws of physics, their theories, and their formulas they have devised to prove to you that God does not exist, or that the world was created by some wild and crazy scientific process in which we do not even fully grasp as the average citizen, and if we do, we only grasp it from the writings of humans.

The methods only work because someone devised it work. I do not see how that constitutes as irrefutable proof of anything, let alone the creation of the universe or the existence of god.

The_Kelzor · 02-23-2007, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

Einstein did not believe in a personal god. You might want to dig a little deeper.

the point is that he believed in a god..deist, i guess is the term...and you pwn nobody by giving me a list of books the read and a video clip, nothing is proven by that video only speculation. and dawkins can kiss my ass. he is about as arrogant as yourself. isnt he the one who recently stated that 'parents who teach their children to believe in God should be arrested for child abuse'?

The_Kelzor · 02-23-2007, 09:33 PM

da while i do believe you make a very valid point, it appears to me you are suggesting that all science, math, and blah should be looked at as only the invention of man. i disagree with you because whether or not physics are the invention of a god or the product of an extremely random accident, it is a beautiful thing and should be respected. physics, geometry, calculus, and whatnot has been consistent enough in most cases to be considered fact. but i truly dont believe man will ever be able to know the truth of our origins.

TheBagman · 02-23-2007, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by The_Kelzor

da while i do believe you make a very valid point, it appears to me you are suggesting that all science, math, and blah should be looked at as only the invention of man. i disagree with you because whether or not physics are the invention of a god or the product of an extremely random accident, it is a beautiful thing and should be respected. physics, geometry, calculus, and whatnot has been consistent enough in most cases to be considered fact. but i truly dont believe man will ever be able to know the truth of our origins.

My point is no one knows the origins of the earth, nor the universe.

However I do respect math and all that as I have to use it in my every day life. I have to respect it enough to put faith in it, or I probably wouldn't have a job, or the computer in front of me, and etc.

Jeff Limpio · 02-23-2007, 10:04 PM

You guys just don't have any idea! Get one first, before you talk about things you know so little about. NEXT PLEASE!

Mr Skinner · 02-23-2007, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

That 1st sentance is perhaps the most ignorant shit I've heard in a long while. Religion is a belief in somthing. Atheists DON'T BELIEVE.

I think crunk explained it to ya pretty well. And science is based on axioms (e.g. a+b=b+a) that are assumed to be true, but cannot be proven. Thus it's based on faith, just as religion.
Besides...atheists don't believe in science. They believe in the non-existance of god, that's it...

Originally Posted by The_Kelzor

it appears to me you are suggesting that all science, math, and blah should be looked at as only the invention of man.

You're right to some degree...but then again y could look at god being invented by man just as easily as math being invented by man.

The_Kelzor · 02-23-2007, 10:44 PM

i was basically disagreeing with him

DanielTulip · 02-24-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by The_Kelzor

the point is that he believed in a god..deist, i guess is the term...

To me Deist is just another "god of the gaps" deal. So god just started the big bang, and peaced the fuck out? I still have respect for the Deist POV though, even if it only fills in the really big gap at the beggining. One thing to note as well is that throughout history Deists have been treated the same as Atheists.

Originally Posted by The_Kelzor

you pwn nobody by giving me a list of books the read and a video clip, nothing is proven by that video only speculation.

From the words "a video clip" I will have to assume that you didn't go to the webpage I linked. There's a lot more videos there. Sure they may be a lot of Dawkins, but wait.... did I not also tell you about 2 other videos. Look for them on torrent. You apparrent actions show a lot of ignorace, and fear. Are you afraid that reading a couple of books, and watching some intellectual video, will make you question your faith, which is based on one book? Pussy.

Originally Posted by The_Kelzor

and dawkins can kiss my ass. he is about as arrogant as yourself. isnt he the one who recently stated that 'parents who teach their children to believe in God should be arrested for child abuse'?

One in the same. And I agree with him. My life without religion has actually been more enjoyable. On the point of arrogance, how do you think I view you, and people like Slutter McGee?

DanielTulip · 02-24-2007, 10:48 AM

The Deist view, though plausible, IMO ignores all scientific history. Science continues to discover, and provide less gaps for ANY god to hide in. It always has, and always will.

TheBagman · 02-24-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

The Deist view, though plausible, IMO ignores all scientific history. Science continues to discover, and provide less gaps for ANY god to hide in. It always has, and always will.

ROFL

The_Kelzor · 02-24-2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

Are you afraid that reading a couple of books, and watching some intellectual video, will make you question your faith, which is based on one book? Pussy.
Slutter McGee?

once again you show your incapability to argue with me and instead argue with Christianity. Not once have i based any of my points on the Bible. Half of you ammunition is claiming how i support the Genesis Creationist viewpoint. You are utterly ridiculous. Next time you decide to push 'submit reply' you should pause and then delete everything that is pointless and doest apply to this conversation. And this is not Opra's Bookclub: Dannyflower Edition. I am not going to read a book you refer to me just as you probabaly wouldnt read a book i reffered to you. i have read books that supported athiesm and frankly every book i read leaves plenty of gaps that can never be explained. my argument from the beginning was that perhaps God only made the slightest most minute (even if was perfectly precise) ripple that cause the monumental chain reaction we live in. so nothing you have said has disproven that. you even said that every year the gap gets smaller so you admit yourself that you can not prove i am wrong so how about you wait a few years before calling me ignorant before you start pulling shit out of you ass like the whole religion thing?

Blayze · 02-26-2007, 03:09 AM

When you think about an ant, imagine how aware an ant is, then imagine rats awareness of the world around it, then think about our level of awareness. We can't possible be aware of all there is, just like an ant dosnt have a clue how the basics earth works or his own existance, we're ignorant of our own true existance, so we come up with ways to make sense of it, eg religions, science, even the aboriginals of australia had fictional(although they took them seriously) stories that explained different aspects of the world that surrounded them.

The_Kelzor · 02-26-2007, 07:13 PM

i will agree with the bulk of that statement

GodlessPothead · 03-01-2007, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Skinner

Atheism is kinda a religion, too. That's why most of us are agnostic. And as opposed to atheists, we do not claim to have all knowlege, we just wait and search for proof, rather than believe in one theory.

No.

Atheists do not claim to have "all knowledge". We simply hold no belief in a god, it does not mean that we believe affirmatively that no god exists.

There is no god

vs.

I don't believe there is a god

Strong atheism vs. weak atheism. Most atheists are weak atheists.

Know what you're talking about. Talk about it. In that order.

GodlessPothead · 03-01-2007, 08:07 AM

Oh, and not that it's relevant, but since someone brought it up:

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

Einstein was a pantheist, at best. More likely an atheist.